What's going on with the site?

[JRR]

Been down probably 50% of the last week.

Web hosting playing games because it's a gun site?

[308Fudd]

With almost zero traffic here maybe it’s not a priority?

[MPrimasing]

this site had a lot of traction for a while, then it went stagnant for quite some time.

I still frequent it for "window shopping", but it should be re-vamped imo.

[JRR]

Maybe, but right now on a Thursday morning there are 71 people browsing the site.

I totally get the community here is nearly dead...I've tried to create interesting topics that have generally gone unnoticed and tried participating to not get very far. But it still is a very viable AZ selling site.

I don't know if this is completely free to run, but I doubt it. If it is I could see how little attention is paid to the site going down.

Perhaps it'd be best to start ditching the forum related support and go to a true "selling" site now that there's a vacuum due to Backpage/Armslist becoming obsolete. This state is in dire need of a centralized and modern site for everyone to get behind for gun related commerce, and while this is probably the best site out there, it pretends not to be. With some rule changes and moderation tweaks it could be a pretty impressive place if everyone gets behind it.

[308Fudd]

Rule tweaks for sure. Seen a few guys catch a ban for forgetting something in a sale ad.

that’s not helping being people over.

[curtmini14]

all one has to do is obey the rules right!

[JRR]

Yeah, it's the rules and rule enforcement that was and still is a pretty big downer. There are some good and some bad, but some people are way too rabid about them.

No one likes a gun range with rabid RSOs yelling at you for violating a range policy unrelated to safety. In the same vein, no one likes mods yelling at people for site rules that make little sense or have little bearing on the ads in question. It doesn't help anyone, but it does deter people from participating.

"If you don't like it go somewhere else!!!!" is all fine and dandy until you've scared everyone away and there's no one left to support the site.

[308Fudd]

Yeah, it's the rules and rule enforcement that was and still is a pretty big downer. There are some good and some bad, but some people are way too rabid about them.

No one likes a gun range with rabid RSOs yelling at you for violating a range policy unrelated to safety. In the same vein, no one likes mods yelling at people for site rules that make little sense or have little bearing on the ads in question. It doesn't help anyone, but it does deter people from participating.

"If you don't like it go somewhere else!!!!" is all fine and dandy until you've scared everyone away and there's no one left to support the site.


well put

…………added because didn’t hit “10 character minimum to reply” of course. What a joke.

[Yamil]

Rule tweaks for sure. Seen a few guys catch a ban for forgetting something in a sale ad.

that’s not helping being people over.


It's NOT forgetting, it's NOT reading the rules!!!

Try this at Sturmgewher, you will be banned for for saying this, not here

We don't give bans, we first ask for folks to just "FOLLOW THE RULES" when they ignore us, we give them infractions, if the stupidity continues, they get banned!!

[Yamil]

all one has to do is obey the rules right!


How freaking hard can that be??

[Yamil]

Yeah, it's the rules and rule enforcement that was and still is a pretty big downer. There are some good and some bad, but some people are way too rabid about them.

No one likes a gun range with rabid RSOs yelling at you for violating a range policy unrelated to safety. In the same vein, no one likes mods yelling at people for site rules that make little sense or have little bearing on the ads in question. It doesn't help anyone, but it does deter people from participating.

"If you don't like it go somewhere else!!!!" is all fine and dandy until you've scared everyone away and there's no one left to support the site.


So, what you're saying is that you would like us to leave Out of State Scammers and folks that want to Violate the Law to remain here to scam you out of your money??

[Yamil]

well put

…………added because didn’t hit “10 character minimum to reply” of course. What a joke.


that is a software deal, but how hard is it to write TEN FREAKING Characters?? I have to deal with that too.

[308Fudd]

that is a software deal, but how hard is it to write TEN FREAKING Characters?? I have to deal with that too.

difficult 1,2,3

[308Fudd]

So, what you're saying is that you would like us to leave Out of State Scammers and folks that want to Violate the Law to remain here to scam you out of your money??


yes. Yes I would. I don’t need you to wipe my Fanny either. Stop trying to police the internet. It’s a losing proposition.


we want BACKPAGE returned.

Run this site like that and you will have more traffic and sell more ads then you ever could.

there’s a reason this thread is the hottest thread and it’s not because people are voicing praise. This is FEEDBACK…do with it what you will.

Or ban me, it’s your site not mine, im just looking for something BETTER and I’d like it to be this site…fuck it. Make me a MOD. The only MOD. I’ll let it all fly and when people cry about scammers I’ll do the same NOTHING I do when they cry about phone scammers.

stop the hand holding. There’s an old saying “a fool and his money will soon be parted” it existed before the internet, so it’s prob still okay


besides. If it’s not FTF who makes that deal……ON A LOCAL FURUM?! ������

[Noshoot]

Everyone can go buy and run their own servers/pay for their own webhosting services, software etc, instead of complaining how a free site is run.

I didn’t see anyone offering to pay for any services, just complaining about the free shit they get for free.

People that get banned here, get banned for trends.
I have to do a pile of research before anyone usually gets the hammer.

To be candid, most everyone here are tire kickers and “undocumented” FFL’s, and we are doing our best to limit the liability of the forum itself.

If that isn’t to your liking, see the first sentence of my post.

[Yamil]

Everyone can go buy and run their own servers/pay for their own webhosting services, software etc, instead of complaining how a free site is run.

I didn’t see anyone offering to pay for any services, just complaining about the free shit they get for free.

People that get banned here, get banned for trends.
I have to do a pile of research before anyone usually gets the hammer.

To be candid, most everyone here are tire kickers and “undocumented” FFL’s, and we are doing our best to limit the liability of the forum itself.

If that isn’t to your liking, see the first sentence of my post.


Some folks like free shit and they complain about free shit!! I will continue to ban scammers and will continue to give infractions to those that are not bright enough to read and follow rules!!

[JRR]

So, what you're saying is that you would like us to leave Out of State Scammers and folks that want to Violate the Law to remain here to scam you out of your money??

No, what I'm saying is that I'd like you to reevaluate the way you approach posters. That's all. You can still do your job without resorting to the above. It's not productive. I'd love to engage you on ways to improve the site, but I'm not confident at this point (after a year of watching your specific moderation) that I'd be able to help at all.

I'd say we have the same goals, but two very different ways to go about it.

And banning me because you think this is an insulting post is only fortifying this point...I mean no offence, but the moderation here can be so heavy handed as to be deleterious to the site as a whole. There needs to be accountability for mods, too. I'd honestly like to help if you'll have it.

[JRR]

Everyone can go buy and run their own servers/pay for their own webhosting services, software etc, instead of complaining how a free site is run.

I didn’t see anyone offering to pay for any services, just complaining about the free shit they get for free.

People that get banned here, get banned for trends.
I have to do a pile of research before anyone usually gets the hammer.

To be candid, most everyone here are tire kickers and “undocumented” FFL’s, and we are doing our best to limit the liability of the forum itself.

If that isn’t to your liking, see the first sentence of my post.

The original post was merely asking about what was happening with the site from an "uptime" perspective. There are plenty of webservers that are antigun, and I generally assumed it's people messing with us that ended up causing the downtime.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly asking - how much do you personally pay monthly/yearly directly for this site? In addition, how would you suggest people contribute? I don't even know if there's a way to pay for membership.

In addition, how are site/moderation suggestions evaluated for incorporation?

[JRR]

Some folks like free shit and they complain about free shit!! I will continue to ban scammers and will continue to give infractions to those that are not bright enough to read and follow rules!!

By the way, this is the only AZ site I trust anymore because of scammers, and I know I have the moderation to thank for that. I've had plenty of good conversations and a few meetups because of this site, and each time I'm more comfortable because of my experiences here and the anti-scam tactics used.

Because of this, I want to see this site succeed, but in order to do that it has to be welcoming and available to all. I know it's a fine line, but there are ways to make that happen that I think the community can help with.

[308Fudd]

By the way, this is the only AZ site I trust anymore because of scammers, and I know I have the moderation to thank for that. I've had plenty of good conversations and a few meetups because of this site, and each time I'm more comfortable because of my experiences here and the anti-scam tactics used.

Because of this, I want to see this site succeed, but in order to do that it has to be welcoming and available to all. I know it's a fine line, but there are ways to make that happen that I think the community can help with.

I don’t think the mods are interested in your feedback. There are other sites. Go check out https://www.arizonashooting.org (https://www.arizonashooting.org/forum/search.php?&sr=topics&search_id=unreadposts&start=75) they have a pretty solid forum and mods take feedback much better.

[Yamil]

By the way, this is the only AZ site I trust anymore because of scammers, and I know I have the moderation to thank for that. I've had plenty of good conversations and a few meetups because of this site, and each time I'm more comfortable because of my experiences here and the anti-scam tactics used.

Because of this, I want to see this site succeed, but in order to do that it has to be welcoming and available to all. I know it's a fine line, but there are ways to make that happen that I think the community can help with.


We try to communicate with those who break the rules, but some folks don't want to listen or follow rules!!

How should we deal with Scammers?? These people are EVIL and TRUE CRIMINALS!!! Also, if we allow illegal behavior here, we will get shut down, we don't need that either!!

Follow rules, prevent scams and keep it legal!!

[Yamil]

The original post was merely asking about what was happening with the site from an "uptime" perspective. There are plenty of webservers that are antigun, and I generally assumed it's people messing with us that ended up causing the downtime.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly asking - how much do you personally pay monthly/yearly directly for this site? In addition, how would you suggest people contribute? I don't even know if there's a way to pay for membership.

In addition, how are site/moderation suggestions evaluated for incorporation?

We don't charge and we don't want to charge, but things cost money, software and hardware.

I don't have the numbers, but there are expenses.

Moderators don't get paid, we do this because we want this site to continue. We do this on our own time.

[Capt. Killingfield]

Rule tweaks for sure. Seen a few guys catch a ban for forgetting something in a sale ad.

that’s not helping being people over.

This exactly!!! Very few posts here without a mod stepping in!!! Worried about scammers?!!! There's another local website with a similar name, just switched around, that gets 20x more traffic and I haven't allowed myself to be scammed once!!!
People buy/sell there with no drama from mods!!! That's why there's no traffic here!!! The mods here don't want you to forget that they are mods!!! And kinda bored!!!!

Ban me, there's no business here anyways!!!

[Yamil]

This exactly!!! Very few posts here without a mod stepping in!!! Worried about scammers?!!! There's another local website with a similar name, just switched around, that gets 20x more traffic and I haven't allowed myself to be scammed once!!!
People buy/sell there with no drama from mods!!! That's why there's no traffic here!!! The mods here don't want you to forget that they are mods!!! And kinda bored!!!!

Ban me, there's no business here anyways!!!


I will help you with that, RIGHT NOW!!

[Yamil]

This exactly!!! Very few posts here without a mod stepping in!!! Worried about scammers?!!! There's another local website with a similar name, just switched around, that gets 20x more traffic and I haven't allowed myself to be scammed once!!!
People buy/sell there with no drama from mods!!! That's why there's no traffic here!!! The mods here don't want you to forget that they are mods!!! And kinda bored!!!!

Ban me, there's no business here anyways!!!\

This is a PERFECT example of what NOSHOOT wrote about!!

A Tire Kicker and a "Undocumented" FFL!! Those who buy and sell guns without an FFL, which is NOT Kosher with us here and with the Government!!

[JRR]

\

This is a PERFECT example of what NOSHOOT wrote about!!

A Tire Kicker and a "Undocumented" FFL!! Those who buy and sell guns without an FFL, which is NOT Kosher with us here and with the Government!!

What is a perfect example? I didn't catch any of what you just said from that poster's post.

[JRR]

We try to communicate with those who break the rules, but some folks don't want to listen or follow rules!!

How should we deal with Scammers?? These people are EVIL and TRUE CRIMINALS!!! Also, if we allow illegal behavior here, we will get shut down, we don't need that either!!

Follow rules, prevent scams and keep it legal!!

I don't think anyone here is advocating for allowing illegal behavior. Again, the initial post was asking if the site got shut down by the webmaster.

There are good rules and bad rules. And I've seen mods break "the rules" and never be held accountable for it because they're the only ones holding everyone else below them accountable. It screams of nepotism and sets a poor tone.

[JRR]

We don't charge and we don't want to charge, but things cost money, software and hardware.

I don't have the numbers, but there are expenses.

Moderators don't get paid, we do this because we want this site to continue. We do this on our own time.

This is why I asked, but it sounds to me like everyone (including mods) on this site are participating for free (not that there's anything wrong with that, but it means no one has financial skin in the game). Moderation doesn't have to come with micromanagement though - it can still be fair without being overburdening to the site.

Do you feel like the site in its current state, as well as the attitude of the moderation, is welcoming to new members and consistent with encouraging growth? I don't. I wish I did, but I don't feel like the users here are given the time of day to voice their concerns in a way that it results in changes. If this site is a community site, then it can't have an iron fist ruling class over it without a mechanism to evolve to the needs of the community.

[theAngryMarmot]

Everyone can go buy and run their own servers/pay for their own webhosting services, software etc, instead of complaining how a free site is run.



While you have a point - it is a free site - let us be honest, the owner of this site doesn't have the server and gear sitting in his house to run this place. It is hosted by a third party (easily obtainable via a whois search) and they handle the equipment, upkeep, maintenance, core software, and hardware. It is fairly easy / inexpensive to run a forum these days - especially one with as little traffic as this one. I am not downplaying the effort here - just laugh when someone makes a comment that eludes to it being a expensive/difficult proposition when it isn't (and as I type this I am sitting in my home office with 4 rack mount enterprise grade servers, storage, and gear on a rack - I know how much the kinda of equipment costs.)

I think the more valid sentiment here other than "create your own" would be "don't like it? See ya....."

[Yamil]

I don't think anyone here is advocating for allowing illegal behavior. Again, the initial post was asking if the site got shut down by the webmaster.

There are good rules and bad rules. And I've seen mods break "the rules" and never be held accountable for it because they're the only ones holding everyone else below them accountable. It screams of nepotism and sets a poor tone.


The rules are the rules, you don't like them, I can make the decision simple for you!!

All the rules here are GOOD RULES because they are the rules set by the owner of the group and modified by us the Admins!!

What's an example of a BAD Rule??

[Yamil]

What is a perfect example? I didn't catch any of what you just said from that poster's post.

Anyone that doesn't want rules to weed out scammers, Tire Kickers and Wannabe FFL's....

[Yamil]

This is why I asked, but it sounds to me like everyone (including mods) on this site are participating for free (not that there's anything wrong with that, but it means no one has financial skin in the game). Moderation doesn't have to come with micromanagement though - it can still be fair without being overburdening to the site.

Do you feel like the site in its current state, as well as the attitude of the moderation, is welcoming to new members and consistent with encouraging growth? I don't. I wish I did, but I don't feel like the users here are given the time of day to voice their concerns in a way that it results in changes. If this site is a community site, then it can't have an iron fist ruling class over it without a mechanism to evolve to the needs of the community.

No, We are NOT participating for free, we have lives and businesses that we stop to moderate here, others buy software and hardware and we don't get paid!! My time is money, so yeah, I don't get paid and I work here for free!! NOT!!! I lose money when I have to waste time dealing with people that are not smart enough to read the rules and follow them!!

[JRR]

The rules are the rules, you don't like them, I can make the decision simple for you!!

All the rules here are GOOD RULES because they are the rules set by the owner of the group and modified by us the Admins!!

What's an example of a BAD Rule??

How can you make the decision simple for me - what does this mean?

If it means punitive action, why is this the first course of action rather than figuring out whether I have something worthwhile to contribute?

As a mod, are you open to criticism and consideration of rule changes in furtherance of bettering this site?

[Noshoot]

Here is where the forum stands when it comes to hosting and the issues we are facing at the present time-

https://www.reddit.com/r/AZguns/comments/uudsoi/azgunbuy/

Someone really want to help, and actually have some skin in the game with enhancing the performance of the forum?
According to one of the owners that started and pays for this site out of his own pocket (and in his exact words) what is needed is-



"These things have been running 24x7 for years. Definitely getting tired.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ucs+c200&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS600US601&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ALiCzsayxxVCPI-K4D-XSF89ifPwMxco3w%3A1654003916368&ei=zBiWYpTZFaGDuvQP6ui9iAY&oq=ucs+c200&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBAgjECcyBQg AEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBggAEB4QFjIGCAAQHhAWMgYIA BAeEBYyBggAEB4QFjoHCCMQsAMQJzoHCAAQRxCwAzoECAAQQ0o ECEEYAFCYEVjOE2D2GWgCcAF4AIABigGIAdICkgEDMS4ymAEAo AEByAEDwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

Tell them we're open for hardware donations. Servers with at least 2 sockets and 64GB RAM. 1U preferred but 2U would be acceptable. Just be less than 10 years old and must work."

The members here have sat at the table for years using the forums services for free, and on occasion (like now) chime in on how they can do it better yet never actually do anything but shout at the clouds.
So here you go.
This isn't going to get anyone any recognition, but it may get the forum on better footing with overall performance.


As far as the rules go.....
When I was brought on the admin team back in August I clarified a great deal of the ambiguity in the rules and infraction structure.
Myself, and many other members here have had absolutely no issues with working within the boundaries set for posting here.
I even remove my sales posts from this forum when I give everyone here a week or two first shot at something before I move it to other local and national websites (no special priv's for me).
Keep in mind, anyone that comes here and complains vs actually being cooperative is not a priority of ours, nor considered to be serious. Especially when individuals register on the site and within their first 1-2 posts are to complain about and question the rules that are in place.

So the rules stand, move on.
If you want Backpage or any other sort of interface for you to do your deals, set it up for yourself, and own the liability that goes with it.


I consider this closed. We will leave the thread open, you all can continue to rend your clothes and gnash your teeth over this, but this is it.

[Yamil]

How can you make the decision simple for me - what does this mean?

If it means punitive action, why is this the first course of action rather than figuring out whether I have something worthwhile to contribute?

As a mod, are you open to criticism and consideration of rule changes in furtherance of bettering this site?


You can come over and work for free like the rest of us!! THAT is what I can offer to make it easy for you!!

You want change, do something about it!! Take some liability!!!