Obeying the crapping rules/Yamil and moved my bitch here!!!

[jon]

Sorry, my paste and copy of California Assault Weapon Ban laws failed,.... I will try later.

[Jager]

That's just my suggestion. The ad in question appears to have been removed by admin which means it likely did not pass increased scrutiny.

This site is an island in a sea of one size fits all - that features an exclusivity (Arizona) some of us will become defensive and protective over. I personally find that something to take pride in - with being respectful at the forefront of any discussion surrounding site operations.

Yamil is a good guy. He assists members in understanding and navigating this site - and it's not likely for princely compensation (other than the new annually leased Ferrari and vacation villa in Costa Rica). He occasionally is forced to play the unenviable role of cat herder or retard wrangler. It's a tough job and the management trusts him to do it. Also understand he is often a conduit and not the arbiter. Patience and allowing him to conduct information exchanges are highly desirable traits.

[jon]

I do agree with you Jager,... it's just that my Greek / Viking dna kicks in when I see something out of balance. And, Cali citizens coming to Az. demanding rules change for their benefit/profit sets my blood thermostat on high!

Obviously, with the info you just posted, there is no need to present a defense of this Fine Arizona Site,... to stay Az. exclusive!

Thank you Arizona Guns ,... GREAT SITE,... and looking forward to a great New Year!!!

[jon]

Jager,... as much as I appreciate your opinion, I am an old school type,... that, trusts but verifies.

It seems you are mistaken about that ad being scrutinized and removed,... unless I am accessing a dead post somehow,... please verify and advise!

thanks

[Jager]

It merely dropped down in the order. Regardless, we have made our positions known. I think opening up the site to out of state sales will doom the site. Scams will ramp up and the site doesn't have the required level of moderation to stay on top of it, not to mention the resources a single legal battle will require. And there will be more than one.

If it's going to change - then the classified rules also need to be rewritten/amended to allow out of state residents. I'd also add that the statement about if an FFL is required the item(s) must be posted in the Dealer section be removed - since it's not enforced anyway. I think if the sale requires an FFL in any capacity - it should be restricted to the Dealers Sales section.

Then there is the site name/domain name that must be changed.

I still insist our California seller isn't legitimate. "Assault weapons", disassembled, that cannot be assembled until they are moved across state lines tells me they are not legally registered there - and are felonies waiting to be discovered. California law does not permit their sale to other California residents, even if they are legally registered. They can only be sold to LE or an FFL, neither of which he is going to do because there's no money in either. If they aren't legally registered, he isn't going anywhere near either, because the first thing they will check is the registry - and voila - prison time.

Looks like the plan is to bring them here and have an unsuspecting FFL or three to conduct the sale unaware they are transferring illegally possessed firearms. And the potential purchasers are also to be involved in the felonious scheme. I posit he is purposely avoiding California FFLs because they will immediately check the registry - and he can't have that. He could easily have a California FFL transfer the firearm to you - but he insists on an Arizona FFL. Red flags aplenty.

The "disassembled" part is no doubt his brainchild hope that if he is caught with them - somehow he might not be racked as hard criminally. Ridiculous, but having unregistered assault weapons in California isn't the mark of a brain trust.

It is my understanding that an inquiry has been made to have the seller produce the registration paperwork for each of the assault weapons and a response is being waited for. My guess is they won't be produced. But I could be wrong. If I was going to purchase any of them, it would be the first thing I would ask for. I would also contact the San Diego Sheriff's Department and verify and perhaps the California Attorney General's Office. Something I would suggest be done at this point anyway - pointing them to the ad so they can investigate and ask the proper questions.

Opening up the site to out of state sales requires site admin to be up to speed on the firearm law's in all 50 states. That will prove interesting. Having something as simple as magazine transactions to prohibited states will become a legal noose that the site payed out the rope for.

Bottom line, it isn't my yard, this site. A lot of the work I do involves risk management. I'm just thinking this sale attempt is rife with disingenuous intent and is hoping for unaware co-conspirators to allow the seller to profit from what amounts to illegal acts. Sure, the law in California is oppressive and sucks. Break it at your own peril.

But when you hope to capitalize on it by inviting others to participate unwittingly, the onus is upon you to provide answers when questioned.

Questions:

Are the firearms legally registered in California and can you produce proof of it?

Explain the necessity of disassembling the firearms and only assembling them once they are in Arizona?

Until the seller adequately answers those two questions, I would recommend avoiding the ad entirely.

Nothing like paying out good money and suddenly having your new firearm confiscated and/or potentially facing felony charges for purchasing an illegally possessed firearm across state lines. Heck, even the Feds could get involved not to mention California and Arizona.

[jon]

You are spot on, Jager!

Your post above covers all the paste and copy Cali laws / data that went dark, when I tried to post it here. You just about got it all !!!

But, just for the sake of making the point,... I read where the SALE of ASSAULT WEAPONS is illegal for Californians to do, period,... I think that about says it all!

[cool arrow]

He occasionally is forced to play the unenviable role of cat herder or retard wrangler.

Retard wrangler...I am going to use that one!

Moderating is not fun or easy on these boards. This one runs a little smoother than some others that I am on, and it is largely due to the MOD's, which are underappreciated.

[JKSanDiego]

Jon, I am sorry you are threatened by a CA resident wanting to join the AZ site. Interestingly, having been on the CA GUN site for almost 10 years I see many AZ, NV, OR and WA people on the site. Never once have I seen someone calling out for them to not be allowed. I would think that during these times of everyone trying to put restriction on guns adn 2nd A rights that gun owners and collectors - from wherever they be from - would stick together.

Also, just because you are from out of state does not mean you are their to scam. If that was true then every AZ person coming to San Diego for a weekend at the beach should be scrutinized as a scammer in town to rip us off? Not likely. In fact I am a little offended by your belief that is the case. I have been on CALGUNS for almost 10 years and have a perfect trader rating. Things that any buyer that I might communicate with would be able to check and see.

You should always check and learn the laws you are quoting. The guns for sale are NOT illegal to own in CA. They can no longer be bought here in the state but they are not ILLEGAL. The first two are simple pistols that use to be sold here and under new laws cannot be sold here any longer. But under CA law if you have them before you could have registered them, changed them to configurations (like adding a paddle grip to prevent thumb from wrapping around grip or securing the magazine to prevent it from being removable.) or dissembled into parts so that it is no longer a functioning firearm. Additionally, while the guns can no longer be sold in CA they can be sold out of state - legally - as long as it is done through an FFL and under that states and Federal rules. (i.e. I sold a belt fed gun - which you can no longer have in CA to someone in TN. I took the gun to my FFL here in CA, he checked and confirmed that the place it was being shipped to was a registered FFL AND shipped the gun for me. The receiving FFL then notified the buyer when it arrived and the buyer completed the sale in TN under TN and Federal law. The same thing occurred when I BOUGHT a handgun from out of state. The seller in ID had it sent to my FFL in CA and I completed the sale under CA laws. ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER CA and FEDERAL LAW!!!) As far as the rifle it is a semi-auto M1A and the shotgun is an O/U shotgun that is perfectly legal.

There is no trickery going on and no scamming going on. There is a legal way to own, buy and sell guns in CA and all the laws are followed. Likewise there is a legal way to buy and sell guns out of state and all the rules and laws are followed.

I joined this site and listed these guns and had planned to list other guns - as I cut back on my collection - since I know there are people in AZ (I have friends their) that might like them and want them. (I also have attended and sold at numerous gun shows in the AZ in Phoenix and Tucson - You may have seen me if you bought a Tactical First Aid Kit or First Aid/Trauma supplies. Prior to COVID for the past 2-3 years I attended the shows a couple times a year since medical supplies is my DAY JOB.)

Lastly, to address your comment that I joined and am DEMANDING rule changes. Not true. I joined, i then was told it was closed to out of state. I asked if there was a way that could be changed since I thought GUN OWNERS should stick together - even if they live in different states. IF the site said NO or decided against it - then I am fine with that. NO DEMANDING going on here. If there is a way to make the site usable for AZ and out of state users - like the CALGUNS SITE - then great.

Like I said above, I am sorry that this has triggered such a reaction from you. The posts were not meant to ruin your day.

[Jager]

Lots of words but little applicable meaning.

Claims others should read and understand the law, but doesn't quote any applicable passages.

No assertion or confirmation the assault weapons are legally registered in California.

No explanation why they must be disassembled.

Read his post. Is it just me - or the more he talks the more he sounds like a used car salesman?

[jon]

Bullshit and trivia drivel,... is that all you got!

You really think you can tug on my Patriotism by pretending we are brothers in arms,... are you so mentally diluted, from living in California, that you think that will get over on me!

Just admit it, guy,... as far as I am concerned, you're just trying to circumvent Cali prohibited assault weapon laws at the very least, and, being totally nontransparent about your actions, at the very best!

California commie socialist democrats have politically ruined the west coast,
and, are trying to do the same here in Az.!,... while on their way to ruining the rest of the country!

You are a Cali citizen, which in these days, makes you the source of the problem, not a solution,... imo!

You don't like the reception I gave you,... too bad-so sad!

You are trying to use Arizona to dump Cali prohibited weapons you can't sell legally in your chosen state!

Whine all you want, you'll get no sympathy from me!

You want to insist what you are doing is perfectly legal,... I guess I should be neighborly and give you the benefit of the doubt, no matter how slim,... and educate my self by contacting the appropriate Cali, or, Federal Agency.

Just to correct my ignorant ways, and straighten myself out, of course!